Economy and the state of it

bjp121 Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:51 am

The debate on how an economy runs needs to end. It's caused nothing but dumb fights about who's right and who's wrong and spineless ban, kick and mute threats.. The truth is from someone who spends allot of time studying this subject is that there's virtually NO economy. Here's why.

An economy is based on Labor, land/resources, manufacturing, production, trade, distribution and consumption of Goods (Or more commonly, Supply and demand)

Let's start with why some of these subjects cant correspond with our current market system.

First off, There's an much higher supply rate than any demand, this is due to the fact that the black market (BM) will buy almost all commonly harvested and mined resources at no cost to anyone, meaning that the money that is given from the black market has an value of absolute 0. For any currency to have value it must have come from an "Commodity" When selling to the black market almost all items can be used as an commodity. This is an dangerous factor due to the fact that many "Renewable" items can be used as commodity's since the black market has set values on them.

Secondly, and an serious issue no one seems to able to comprehend, "Labor". Why I even have to explain this I don't know. "Economic Value" is an measure of the benefit that an economic actor can gain from either a good or "Service". In a conventional Capitalist government you will make more money the more you work [/u]Only limited to the amount you choose to work.[u] And based off what "goods" are gained from what's being done may affect your amount of "Currency" earned. If I work ten hours at an constant rate of say "10$" an hour I should (and deserve) 100$. This is a whole other issue for the "economy" that needs to be taken care of. It takes much more work to mine 1000 redstone or coal (And are semi non-renewable) but share the same price currently as sugar cane. If I was looking to earn money in the quickest way why would I waste time mining an Non-renewable object like coal when sugar cane is saying "Look at me I'm an easy way to get you more money for less labor" It's just common sense (and human nature) to take the easiest route.

Thirdly, (Lol) Since technically our demand is sully based off of what the black market will give off, what's the point of having renewable objects there in the first place to sell? Of course if I'm looking for quick cash I'll make an BF sized sugar cane farm if it's not against rules! Any smart investor will do what it takes to get what they can get for as little as they can get, for as little as they can do.

Lastly, I was told that having an massive farm "Unfair" to people "Not willing" to make a farm that big, Ill refrain from using the words "Communist" or "Lazy" but that's just "unfair" to someone willing to work. Telling me that "I'm ruining the BM prices" is silly bander Heck I'm almost doing a favor by ripping renewable objects off the "High Value Items" Miners deserved to be payed more! Coals alot more useful than sugar cane! so is iron diamonds and gold even (Eww gold) a healthy economy has fluctuating prices due to mass production, harvesting and consumption. To end the childish fight of the economy crap with everyone let me simplify, don't let (or expect) your opinion change the way the economy works, let the economy do what the economy does and enjoy minecraft the way its meant to be played and not worry about it.

Resources: Wikipedia, past research, School.

**x_Madi_x** Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:19 pm

bjp121 wrote:Moderators:
x_Madi_x: Too pokey about farms and how the "Economy crash was my fault"

Well, it's my job to look after our server. Personally, and I dont know about other people, but I don't want our Black Market to take a downfall because of oversized farms. Last I heard you only wanted an automated farm for your pumpkins becaue that was your source of food. Though, your pumpkin and melon farm is automated with redstone. If you have over like.. a town of 10 people, yeah I could understand your farm size. But this is one of the issues we lost our fellow Moderator. The whole server is paying the price of low sell prices, and it's getting difficult every day to sell food and make money. This is an economy server,and I'm sure we all don't want you making money JUST by farming. You can auction made items, Or go fight some mobs and sell drops a bit more. I guess you probably have a mob grinder, with the look of your farms. But anywho, my point is: I'm a member of the server who has to deal with lowering prices of items because people have too big of farms.

**Inv3rt3d** Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:35 pm

Bjp, you are making an enemy of the server. You keep ranting on about your super supply of food yet I've never seen you in the parkour course or arena or anything. It's blind determination that has been derived from your actions and you are going to lose this perpetual battle because of it. I see you mining and farming, eh. Have fun, socialise, say hi, you're quiet and trying to speed through the server. This is not a timed examination that you are taking. Get to know others, help the R1s in getting them set up. There's more than a couple things you could do, your farm will need to be on strike for now, I propose.

milly4life Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:42 pm

So if you understand that your renewable recources, sugar cane, should not cost as much as coal and redstone. Why were you complaining that we lower the price of sugar cane? You asked me a few times, if I thought it was fair that you lost your money. To be honest I think that you should have almost no money from sugar cane, because nobody needs it. and its really easy to produce.

Also, can you explain how my real estate company is exploiting. Your previous standing point for that was, "because I have 100k". I do the labor, provide the materials, and provide a service that cannot be obtained without my assistance, thats not abusing the BM, thats using my skills.

Also one last thing, you claim to study the economy, well when i look at your age on the forums, it says your 16. You do not study the economy, you are in high school. there are many flaws in what you have written. To normal people who do not study the economy you might be able to pass yourself off as majoring in that field. however it is obvious to me, (and I'm majoring in Finance, not econ) that you have taken a few short courses on the subject. the information you bring up shows a basic knowledge of how an economy works in a perfect world, however there are no perfect worlds. So how do people make up ways for an economy to work? well there are many different types economies to suit the various needs around the world. So until Perthcraft is able to follow one, (which would be painfully boring and difficult in my opinion) there will be no legitimate economy.

One last thing I can't stand, "an" is only used when the next word starts with a vowel.

bjp121 Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:36 pm

I already finished the course inverted. And milly I never said it was an exploit to sell houses, but it was annoying to see someone with as much much money as you complaining I made too much. and people don't realize one thing. We do ALL of those things yet we're personally on guard 24/7 of harvesting farms. check my buddies and my own stats go to one of our 8 town outposts with mob spawners. We're highly active throughout the server! We're no where near market profiteers than the next guy. I'm sick of being accused of harvesting a farm as a exploit while everyone else can enjoy the server while I might gain a few thousand, or maybe even auction off some items and I'm called a "Mad man exploiter". I play as fairly as the next guy maybe just a little more. It's gone beyond "you farm too much" it's personal attacks that are sour and meaningless. I don't hate anybody on the server heck, I think all the mods are doing a good job beyond this situation, as you've handled many situations with haste and low remorse to hackers and griefer's.

P.S "a" and "an" Is one of my main grammar errors I continue to working on. One mistake should not judge anyone's intelligence.

bjp121 Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:50 pm

milly4life wrote:So if you understand that your renewable recources, sugar cane, should not cost as much as coal and redstone. Why were you complaining that we lower the price of sugar cane? You asked me a few times, if I thought it was fair that you lost your money. To be honest I think that you should have almost no money from sugar cane, because nobody needs it. and its really easy to produce.

Also, can you explain how my real estate company is exploiting. Your previous standing point for that was, "because I have 100k". I do the labor, provide the materials, and provide a service that cannot be obtained without my assistance, thats not abusing the BM, thats using my skills.

Also one last thing, you claim to study the economy, well when i look at your age on the forums, it says your 16. You do not study the economy, you are in high school. there are many flaws in what you have written. To normal people who do not study the economy you might be able to pass yourself off as majoring in that field. however it is obvious to me, (and I'm majoring in Finance, not econ) that you have taken a few short courses on the subject. the information you bring up shows a basic knowledge of how an economy works in a perfect world, however there are no perfect worlds. So how do people make up ways for an economy to work? well there are many different types economies to suit the various needs around the world. So until Perthcraft is able to follow one, (which would be painfully boring and difficult in my opinion) there will be no legitimate economy.

One last thing I can't stand, "an" is only used when the next word starts with a vowel.

Thank you for understanding that what was stated was based off of what a "Perfect world economy" would work. But again, you're insulting me based on what you feel about me and I understand that. To be honest I don't even attend a normal high school. My family has gone through a really tough time in the past five years, so I could not attend basic mandatory classes.

I decided four months ago that it'll be for the best go for my "GED" so I can have an high school education around my belt. Dedicated, I studied for the test and when I did the pre-tests I did not have to retake any of them cause I passed. My actual test is within a few days from now and I will be attending college next year, and I will major in financing or business to further my education. Further meaning that I personally study the economy, not learn it in school.

This is a forum for minecraft I would like to keep my education and everyone else's out of it.

milly4life Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:14 pm

bjp121 wrote:
This is a forum for minecraft I would like to keep my education and everyone else's out of it.

I was not trying to bring your education or intelligence into it, Im just saying that when people are coming out of high school, they are not specialized in any certain field unless they went to trade school (I assume that people don't go to these much, because most people in my country don't. sorry if it offends anyone). So when people see someone who is in high school trying to lecture about my fields and whatnot, which your post did. they don't tend to react well, and you should know this. However I was not insulting you personally, just saying that at 16 or a senior in high school, there is a whole world of knowledge out there that you and everyone else at your age has yet to learn about the economy.

Also, When you say that you were unhappy about a person who has as much money as me is complaining about how fast you get your money. Thats exactly why I have a right to complain about it, I have done it the hard way of building stuff for people, and using a more real economy than the BM. So when you use what you yourself called "no economy" I have every right to complain. (but i try to contain my rage)

**Becca** Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:00 am

bjp121 wrote:I already finished the course inverted. And milly I never said it was an exploit to sell houses, but it was annoying to see someone with as much much money as you complaining I made too much. and people don't realize one thing. We do ALL of those things yet we're personally on guard 24/7 of harvesting farms. check my buddies and my own stats go to one of our 8 town outposts with mob spawners. We're highly active throughout the server! We're no where near market profiteers than the next guy. I'm sick of being accused of harvesting a farm as a exploit while everyone else can enjoy the server while I might gain a few thousand, or maybe even auction off some items and I'm called a "Mad man exploiter". I play as fairly as the next guy maybe just a little more. It's gone beyond "you farm too much" it's personal attacks that are sour and meaningless. I don't hate anybody on the server heck, I think all the mods are doing a good job beyond this situation, as you've handled many situations with haste and low remorse to hackers and griefer's.

P.S "a" and "an" Is one of my main grammar errors I continue to working on. One mistake should not judge anyone's intelligence.

Okay, Now, people with high amounts of money need it to rank up that's why they save it, it's taken milyl months to get to this point for R5, she builds houses for an amount of money, she doesn't farm constantly or mine inbetween growing times, she works and enjoys what she does, you continue to say how much of a pain your farm is and how long it takes to grow and harvest, yet it's AUTOMATED, ohmygosh the effort of having to flick a switch and stuff is so hard.
the server is for playing, ranking up is a perk and a goal, a goal to work towards and do other stuff inbetween,
A Town, you have one, build it.
we've lost a mod for this, lowered bm prices, we don't want them lowered any more, you're the one that's gotten them lowered so far so yes we're targetting you. there's other things to sell to the bm, try multitasking.
it's more the fact that you bring it up that you have to earn money like the rest of us that you're now "limited" that making money isn't as fast.
you bring it up every chance you get, which starts another fight. Which is what this post will do.

in other words.

THERE'S OTHER WAYS TO GETTING MONEY PROPERLY SURE IT TAKES LONGER BUT IT'S THE BETTER WAY.

**x_Madi_x** Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:33 pm

Becca wrote:
bjp121 wrote:I already finished the course inverted. And milly I never said it was an exploit to sell houses, but it was annoying to see someone with as much much money as you complaining I made too much. and people don't realize one thing. We do ALL of those things yet we're personally on guard 24/7 of harvesting farms. check my buddies and my own stats go to one of our 8 town outposts with mob spawners. We're highly active throughout the server! We're no where near market profiteers than the next guy. I'm sick of being accused of harvesting a farm as a exploit while everyone else can enjoy the server while I might gain a few thousand, or maybe even auction off some items and I'm called a "Mad man exploiter". I play as fairly as the next guy maybe just a little more. It's gone beyond "you farm too much" it's personal attacks that are sour and meaningless. I don't hate anybody on the server heck, I think all the mods are doing a good job beyond this situation, as you've handled many situations with haste and low remorse to hackers and griefer's.

P.S "a" and "an" Is one of my main grammar errors I continue to working on. One mistake should not judge anyone's intelligence.

Okay, Now, people with high amounts of money need it to rank up that's why they save it, it's taken milyl months to get to this point for R5, she builds houses for an amount of money, she doesn't farm constantly or mine inbetween growing times, she works and enjoys what she does, you continue to say how much of a pain your farm is and how long it takes to grow and harvest, yet it's AUTOMATED, ohmygosh the effort of having to flick a switch and stuff is so hard.
the server is for playing, ranking up is a perk and a goal, a goal to work towards and do other stuff inbetween,
A Town, you have one, build it.
we've lost a mod for this, lowered bm prices, we don't want them lowered any more, you're the one that's gotten them lowered so far so yes we're targetting you. there's other things to sell to the bm, try multitasking.
it's more the fact that you bring it up that you have to earn money like the rest of us that you're now "limited" that making money isn't as fast.
you bring it up every chance you get, which starts another fight. Which is what this post will do.

in other words.

THERE'S OTHER WAYS TO GETTING MONEY PROPERLY SURE IT TAKES LONGER BUT IT'S THE BETTER WAY.

THIS.

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